How do I install the Recovery Consold

[mm]

On Tue, 28 Sep 2010 23:32:03 -0400, "Daave" <daave@example.com> wrote:

>mm wrote:
>> On Tue, 28 Sep 2010 18:56:45 -0400, "Daave" <daave@example.com> wrote:
>>
>>> mm wrote:
>>>> On Tue, 28 Sep 2010 01:47:20 -0400, "Daave" <daave@example.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> mm wrote:
>>>>>> On Mon, 27 Sep 2010 21:19:45 -0700, Andy <1@2.3> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The Windows 98 boot sector (hidden file \bootsect.dos when dual
>>>>>>> booting with Widows XP) contains information about the size of
>>>>>>> the partition. So when you resized the partition, the Windows 98
>>>>>>> boot sector is no longer valid.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks. I did run "fixboot c:" from the recovery console, but
>>>>>> there are still 3 problems in the win98 boot. I'm making
>>>>>> progress there, with the help of the win98 ng. Trying to decide
>>>>>> whether to reinstall win98SE (can't remember how), or fix each of
>>>>>> the problems. One of the problems isn't windows however, it's in
>>>>>> autoexec.bat. Gosh it may be screwed up bad. I made my first
>>>>>> actual image a week ago and I may already need it.
>>>>>
>>>>> Hold up.
>>>>>
>>>>> When you made your image, was your PC working properly
>>>>
>>>> Yes.
>>>>
>>>>> (and was the
>>>>> image made before you incorrectly resized the partitions)?
>>>>
>>>> Yes.
>>>>
>>>>> If so, just
>>>>> restore it!
>>>>
>>>> That will take care of MBR, boot sector, etc?
>>>
>>> Absolutely.
>>>
>>> This, of course, assumes that you made the image of the *entire* hard
>>> drive (i.e., not just a partition).
>>
>> There are two images, one for each partition. I have been thinking
>> of them as independent.
>>
>> FWIW, I used XXCLone to make them. It doesn't have the ability to do
>> a whole drive automatically if there is more than one partition.
>
>I'm not familiar with that program, so I don't know from experience.

Most people aren't. The guy first wrote XXCOPY, which is like XCOPY
but with far far more options, and free to individual users. XXClone
is free for the simple version. The 40 dollar version will do
incremental backups, because even though it is an image program that
makes a bootable "image" it is a file by file copy. .... I'll start
another thread about this soon.
>
>Had you used a program like DriveImageXML and imaged the entire hard
>drive, I'd be much more confident.
>
>As long as you made sure to copy all your data, it won't hurt to use
>XXClone to restore both partitions to see what happens. For good
>measure, you could use DriveImageXML or Acronis True Image to image the
>entire hard drive before you attempt the XXClone restoration.

Well, maybe. I have dl'd Acronis True Image Home already.

Thanks.

[john john]

On 9/28/2010 2:16 PM, mm wrote:
> On Tue, 28 Sep 2010 08:48:26 -0400, "dadiOH"<dadiOH@invalid.com>
> wrote:
>
>> mm wrote:
>>> On Mon, 27 Sep 2010 21:19:45 -0700, Andy<1@2.3> wrote:
>>>
>>>> The Windows 98 boot sector (hidden file \bootsect.dos when dual
>>>> booting with Widows XP) contains information about the size of the
>>>> partition. So when you resized the partition, the Windows 98 boot
>>>> sector is no longer valid.
>>>
>>> Thanks. I did run "fixboot c:" from the recovery console, but there
>>> are still 3 problems in the win98 boot.
>>
>> You need to fix the boot sector with the files on a Win98 boot floppy, *NOT*
>> with XP or its recovery console.
>>
>> 1. Boot with floppy
>>
>> 2. sys c: (assuming that the Win98 drive is C:)
>
> You know, it did sort of bother me that I was using a winXP "solution"
> for a 98 partition, but I told myself there were partitions before
> there was win98, so it should work. I can well believe that instead,
> this will work, but will know for sure later today. I'll let you
> know.

The Sys command will restore the Windows 98 boot sector and you will be
able to boot to Windows 98 but you will no longer be able to boot to
Windows XP, that is no big deal, the Fixboot command will restore the NT
boot sector and allow you to boot Windows XP again. After you boot to
the Windows 98 installation you can use the ancient debug command to
recreate the BOOTSECT.DOS file then you can use the Fixboot command to
rewrite the NT boot sector and return the boot process to ntldr.

To use the DEBUG command to create the bootsect.dos file, from Windows
98 start an MS-DOS Prompt and navigate to the root of the System drive.
To start the Debug console type debug and press <Enter> then enter
the following commands, (pressing <Enter> after each):

L 100 2 0 1
N C:\BOOTSECT.DOS
R BX
0
R CX
200
W
Q

If you want you can copy and paste the above commands to a Notepad file
then save the file as READ.SCR in the root folder, then once in the
debug console you can just type READ.SCR and press <Enter> to run the
commands automatically. Remember to navigate to the root folder (cd\)
before you launch Debug.

Note that the second number in the in the L line (L 100 # 0 1) indicates
the drive letter of the Windows 98 partition (2 = C, 3 = D, 4 = E, and
so on).

L 100 2 0 1

assumes that Windows 98 is on C:.

After you create the Bootsect.DOS file use the Recovery Console's
Fixboot command to rewrite the NT boot sector to the partition and
return the boot to the NT boot manager (ntldr), you should then be able
to boot both operating systems. The boot.ini file contains the entries
for both operating systems, typically:

[boot loader]
timeout=15
default=multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(2)\WINDOWS
[operating systems]
multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(2)\WINDOWS="Windows XP" /fastdetect
C:\="Microsoft Windows 98"

John

[mm]

On Tue, 28 Sep 2010 01:11:47 -0400, "Daave" <daave@example.com> wrote:

>mm wrote:
>> On Mon, 27 Sep 2010 23:52:46 -0400, "Daave" <daave@example.com> wrote:
>>
>>> mm wrote:
>>>> How do I install the XP Recovery Console?
>>>>
>>>> OR how do I fix the boot sector of my C: partition, when I'm in
>>>> winXP on the D: partition, but I have MS dual boot from the C:,
>>>> win98 partition?
>>>>
>>>> Right now I'd be happy just to fix the boot sector, but the only
>>>> way I know to do that is from the XP Recovery Console, with "
>>>> fixboot C: "
>>>>
>>>> (Background: I used Easeus Parition Master 6 to make the C:
>>>> partition smaller and now, I still have my dual boot menu and can
>>>> boot to winxp with no problem, and I can boot to the win98SE menu,
>>>> but whichever option I choose, it doesn't get very far before it
>>>> stops with some bad message or other.)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> So, How do I install XP Recovery Console:
>>>>
>>>> I' sorry the rest of this post is so long.
>>>
>>> <snip>
>>>
>>> (It sure was!)
>>>
>>> You install the XP Recovery Console by using the method listed here:
>>>
>>> http://support.microsoft.com/kb/307654
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>>> But the CD's SP level needs to match the OS's SP level on the PC.
>>>
>>> Since installing the Recovery Console is not necessary (you can
>>> always run it off the CD), I would recommend against it.
>>
>> Not directed at you personally, of course:
>>
>> I wasted a lot of time last night. It would have been okay if it
>> hadn't been a waste, but most of it was.
>>
>> Maybe it's not necesary, but I think if Microsoft is going to write
>> about it installing it and write about using it when it's been
>> installed, they should warn people when they first get Windows that
>> now is the time to install it. I don't dump on MS that often, but I
>> think they deserve it here.
>>
>> They do say here (though not everywhere, I'll bet) that the CD has to
>> be as old as the OS, but it should be in bolder, red print at the
>> start, to make it clear that it's a major obstacle. Instead it's in
>> thin letter print with a reference to another page. On the other page
>> http://support.microsoft.com/kb/898594 re three methods, the first
>> two of which are not feasible for most users, and the third I tried
>> over and over (an sp3 version of it), slipstreaming SP2, then sp3 into
>> the sp0 versionxe file and it wouldn't work.
>>
>> They could for example have an option to install Rec. Console using
>> the wrong version of the winnt32. It's windows, not God, which is
>> preventing me from using the sp3 version because ist's not straight
>> out of an XP SP3 CD, or whatever. I may be a failure at
>> slipsteaming, but most users don't know a thing about it.
>>
>> And they are probably causing the same problems with Vista and 7 users
>> and everyone after that.
>
>And that's the exact reason I recommend against installing the RC.

Okay, you've convinced me.
>
>It's potentially tricky and it's totally unnecessary. Just boot off the
>CD and run it from there the few times you would ever need it.

That's what I did and it went okay. You're right, I won't need it
much.

>That's also the reason I recommend that one's drive should be regularly
>imaged. That way RC is never needed. Or System Restore for that matter.
>Or, most important, reinstalling the OS.

Okay

[mm]

On Thu, 30 Sep 2010 21:26:45 -0300, John John <audetweld@nbnot.nb.ca>
wrote:

>On 9/28/2010 2:16 PM, mm wrote:
>> On Tue, 28 Sep 2010 08:48:26 -0400, "dadiOH"<dadiOH@invalid.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> mm wrote:
>>>> On Mon, 27 Sep 2010 21:19:45 -0700, Andy<1@2.3> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> The Windows 98 boot sector (hidden file \bootsect.dos when dual
>>>>> booting with Widows XP) contains information about the size of the
>>>>> partition. So when you resized the partition, the Windows 98 boot
>>>>> sector is no longer valid.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks. I did run "fixboot c:" from the recovery console, but there
>>>> are still 3 problems in the win98 boot.
>>>
>>> You need to fix the boot sector with the files on a Win98 boot floppy, *NOT*
>>> with XP or its recovery console.
>>>
>>> 1. Boot with floppy
>>>
>>> 2. sys c: (assuming that the Win98 drive is C:)
>>
>> You know, it did sort of bother me that I was using a winXP "solution"
>> for a 98 partition, but I told myself there were partitions before
>> there was win98, so it should work. I can well believe that instead,
>> this will work, but will know for sure later today. I'll let you
>> know.

I didn't actually try it that day.

I decided to be slow and thorough, and I'm glad I waited because of
what you've written below. I've read it twice already, and read one
version of the debug help in Take Command, TCC LE 10, the successor to
4DOS. Now I'm going to read some debug tutorials on the web.

>The Sys command will restore the Windows 98 boot sector and you will be
>able to boot to Windows 98 but you will no longer be able to boot to
>Windows XP, that is no big deal, the Fixboot command will restore the NT
>boot sector and allow you to boot Windows XP again. After you boot to
>the Windows 98 installation you can use the ancient debug command to

I've never used debug, but I think every grown man should. It will be
good for me.

>recreate the BOOTSECT.DOS file then you can use the Fixboot command to
>rewrite the NT boot sector and return the boot process to ntldr.
>To use the DEBUG command to create the bootsect.dos file, from Windows
>98 start an MS-DOS Prompt and navigate to the root of the System drive.
> To start the Debug console type debug and press <Enter> then enter
>the following commands, (pressing <Enter> after each):

Have I mentioned that when I tried to run the FixMBR comamnd from the
Recovery Console, it said I had an a non-standard or invalid MBR and I
might lose my partition tables if I ran FixMBR? So I didn't run it.
Do you think that's NOT the problem, that's it's for sure what you
have below?

>L 100 2 0 1
>N C:\BOOTSECT.DOS

IIUC, you are loading the first sector of drive C and you are planning
to save it as bootsect.dos. That's why the N command doesn't have to
come before the L command?

>R BX
>0

You are setting BX as zero

>R CX
>200

And CX as 200.

>W

And you write the boot sector of drive C to the address 0000:0200,
which you have named bootsect.dos.

>Q

And you Quit

>If you want you can copy and paste the above commands to a Notepad file
>then save the file as READ.SCR in the root folder, then once in the
>debug console you can just type READ.SCR and press <Enter> to run the
>commands automatically. Remember to navigate to the root folder (cd\)
>before you launch Debug.
>
>Note that the second number in the in the L line (L 100 # 0 1) indicates
>the drive letter of the Windows 98 partition (2 = C, 3 = D, 4 = E, and
>so on).
>
>L 100 2 0 1
>
>assumes that Windows 98 is on C:.
>
>After you create the Bootsect.DOS file use the Recovery Console's
>Fixboot command to rewrite the NT boot sector to the partition and
>return the boot to the NT boot manager (ntldr), you should then be able
>to boot both operating systems.

On the third reading, I followed all this. I hope you're right.
Thanks a lot.

>The boot.ini file contains the entries
>for both operating systems, typically:
>
>[boot loader]
>timeout=15
>default=multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(2)\WINDOWS
>[operating systems]
>multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(2)\WINDOWS="Windows XP" /fastdetect
>C:\="Microsoft Windows 98"

Yes, that's just what my boot.ini looks like.

Is the reason the the last line can be so short, no multi(0) etc.
becaue its default is to go to the bootsect.dos? Or do I have things
backwards.


>John

[mm]

On Fri, 01 Oct 2010 01:05:14 -0400, mm <NOPSAMmm2005@bigfoot.com>
wrote:

>
>>L 100 2 0 1
>>N C:\BOOTSECT.DOS
>
>IIUC, you are loading the first sector of drive C and you are planning
>to save it as bootsect.dos. That's why the N command doesn't have to
>come before the L command?
>
>>R BX
>>0
>
>You are setting BX as zero
>
>>R CX
>>200
>
>And CX as 200.
>
>>W
>
>And you write the boot sector of drive C to the address 0000:0200,
>which you have named bootsect.dos.

No, 200H is the number of bytes to be written, 200H = 512, one sector.
>
>>Q
>
>And you Quit

[mm]

On Thu, 30 Sep 2010 21:26:45 -0300, John John <audetweld@nbnot.nb.ca>
wrote:

>
>> You know, it did sort of bother me that I was using a winXP "solution"
>> for a 98 partition, but I told myself there were partitions before
>> there was win98, so it should work. I can well believe that instead,
>> this will work, but will know for sure later today. I'll let you
>> know.
>
>The Sys command will restore the Windows 98 boot sector and you will be
>able to boot to Windows 98 but you will no longer be able to boot to
>Windows XP, that is no big deal, the Fixboot command will restore the NT
>boot sector and allow you to boot Windows XP again. After you boot to
>the Windows 98 installation you can use the ancient debug command to
>recreate the BOOTSECT.DOS file then you can use the Fixboot command to
>rewrite the NT boot sector and return the boot process to ntldr.

BTW, why can't I just copy my backup copy of bootsect.dos back to the
C:\ folder?

I can't. I tried it, and they had the same date, etc. from a year ago
for some reason, and replacing it with the backup didn't help.

[john john]

On 10/1/2010 4:40 AM, mm wrote:
> On Thu, 30 Sep 2010 21:26:45 -0300, John John<audetweld@nbnot.nb.ca>
> wrote:
>
>>
>>> You know, it did sort of bother me that I was using a winXP "solution"
>>> for a 98 partition, but I told myself there were partitions before
>>> there was win98, so it should work. I can well believe that instead,
>>> this will work, but will know for sure later today. I'll let you
>>> know.
>>
>> The Sys command will restore the Windows 98 boot sector and you will be
>> able to boot to Windows 98 but you will no longer be able to boot to
>> Windows XP, that is no big deal, the Fixboot command will restore the NT
>> boot sector and allow you to boot Windows XP again. After you boot to
>> the Windows 98 installation you can use the ancient debug command to
>> recreate the BOOTSECT.DOS file then you can use the Fixboot command to
>> rewrite the NT boot sector and return the boot process to ntldr.
>
> BTW, why can't I just copy my backup copy of bootsect.dos back to the
> C:\ folder?

Because you re-sized the Windows 98 Partition. The geometry of the
partition is recorded in the bootsect.dos file and if you change the
layout of the partition the file is no longer valid and it cannot load
the operating system, the file needs to be recreated so that the new
partition layout can be properly recorded. I will answer your other
posts later today or early tomorrow morning... busy day today.

John

[mm]

On Fri, 01 Oct 2010 07:43:47 -0300, John John <audetweld@nbnot.nb.ca>
wrote:

>On 10/1/2010 4:40 AM, mm wrote:
>> On Thu, 30 Sep 2010 21:26:45 -0300, John John<audetweld@nbnot.nb.ca>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>> You know, it did sort of bother me that I was using a winXP "solution"
>>>> for a 98 partition, but I told myself there were partitions before
>>>> there was win98, so it should work. I can well believe that instead,
>>>> this will work, but will know for sure later today. I'll let you
>>>> know.
>>>
>>> The Sys command will restore the Windows 98 boot sector and you will be
>>> able to boot to Windows 98 but you will no longer be able to boot to
>>> Windows XP, that is no big deal, the Fixboot command will restore the NT
>>> boot sector and allow you to boot Windows XP again. After you boot to
>>> the Windows 98 installation you can use the ancient debug command to
>>> recreate the BOOTSECT.DOS file then you can use the Fixboot command to
>>> rewrite the NT boot sector and return the boot process to ntldr.
>>
>> BTW, why can't I just copy my backup copy of bootsect.dos back to the
>> C:\ folder?
>
>Because you re-sized the Windows 98 Partition. The geometry of the
>partition is recorded in the bootsect.dos file

Ohhhhh. It's starting to come together.

> and if you change the
>layout of the partition the file is no longer valid and it cannot load
>the operating system, the file needs to be recreated so that the new
>partition layout can be properly recorded. I will answer your other
>posts later today or early tomorrow morning... busy day today.

Of course. Your own stuff is more important than answering me. I
hope you have a good day.

Thanks.

>John

[mm]

On Thu, 30 Sep 2010 21:26:45 -0300, John John <audetweld@nbnot.nb.ca>
wrote:

>On 9/28/2010 2:16 PM, mm wrote:
>> On Tue, 28 Sep 2010 08:48:26 -0400, "dadiOH"<dadiOH@invalid.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> mm wrote:
>>>> On Mon, 27 Sep 2010 21:19:45 -0700, Andy<1@2.3> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> The Windows 98 boot sector (hidden file \bootsect.dos when dual
>>>>> booting with Widows XP) contains information about the size of the
>>>>> partition. So when you resized the partition, the Windows 98 boot
>>>>> sector is no longer valid.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks. I did run "fixboot c:" from the recovery console, but there
>>>> are still 3 problems in the win98 boot.
>>>
>>> You need to fix the boot sector with the files on a Win98 boot floppy, *NOT*
>>> with XP or its recovery console.
>>>
>>> 1. Boot with floppy
>>>
>>> 2. sys c: (assuming that the Win98 drive is C:)

Alas, now I have another question. This has bothered me for many
years, but now it becomes very important.

http://www.easydos.com/sys.html
http://www.computerhope.com/syshlp.htm
Sys copies:
command.com
io.sys
msdos.sys
drvspace.bin (which I never have)

What happens if I copy in another version?

For example, the command.com there now is 700K, but in most of my boot
disks I see that it is about 300K or as little as 94K! Even the one
where it is the closest, around 700K, the length is 10 bytes
different, longer.

And the other two files might be different. For example, in the
floppy that has the 700K command.com (which I dl'd from bootdisk.com
and which I think shows with ver that it is the ME version of DOS,
which is a later version than win98 had!), msdos.sys is only 6 bytes
long**, eeeeven though comments inside longer versions of msdos.sys
say it has to be has to be at least 1024 bytes long! "for
compatibility with other programs."*** And the one there now is 1756
bytes! And even though there are important entries in a full length
msdos.sys, like Paths and Options, default boot option, boot menu
delay, nogui or not. That aren't in a 6 byte version, which only has
";sys ", which is the first line of the longer versions.

***Maybe those other programs don't exist anymore, especially in the
WinMe world but I still want to retain the Paths and Options.

It seems to me what I have to do is take the emergency boot floppy and
copy over to it the current values for those 3 files to the floppy, so
that the sys command doens't change them.

Or is that like copying back bootsect.dos? And I'll undo whatever
good I would have done.

And this finally reminds me, What does any of this have to do with the
boot sector? I'm reading again the descriptions of the sys command
and none of the sources say anything except about the 4 files listed.

Thanks again for all your help.

Mike


**This is discussed at http://support.microsoft.com/kb/149110 A bit
complicated of course: "If the SYS command (Sys.com) included with
Windows 95 determines that the existing Msdos.sys file is from MS-DOS
version 6.22 or earlier, it replaces the existing Msdos.sys file with
an incomplete Msdos.sys file that contains only the text ";SYS." If
the SYS command is unable to determine that the existing Msdos.sys
file is from MS-DOS version 6.22 or earlier, it assumes that the file
is a valid Windows 95 Msdos.sys file and does not replace it. " Where
I got this 6 byte version I'm not 100% sure. I think I dl'd it
yesterday from bootdisk.com, and was a combo win98/ME version, which
apparently are not the same in form, even if maybe they work the same.


>> You know, it did sort of bother me that I was using a winXP "solution"
>> for a 98 partition, but I told myself there were partitions before
>> there was win98, so it should work. I can well believe that instead,
>> this will work, but will know for sure later today. I'll let you
>> know.
>
>The Sys command will restore the Windows 98 boot sector and you will be
>able to boot to Windows 98 but you will no longer be able to boot to
>Windows XP, that is no big deal, the Fixboot command will restore the NT
>boot sector and allow you to boot Windows XP again. After you boot to
>the Windows 98 installation you can use the ancient debug command to
>recreate the BOOTSECT.DOS file then you can use the Fixboot command to
>rewrite the NT boot sector and return the boot process to ntldr.
>
>To use the DEBUG command to create the bootsect.dos file, from Windows
>98 start an MS-DOS Prompt and navigate to the root of the System drive.
> To start the Debug console type debug and press <Enter> then enter
>the following commands, (pressing <Enter> after each):
>
>L 100 2 0 1
>N C:\BOOTSECT.DOS
>R BX
>0
>R CX
>200
>W
>Q
>
>If you want you can copy and paste the above commands to a Notepad file
>then save the file as READ.SCR in the root folder, then once in the
>debug console you can just type READ.SCR and press <Enter> to run the
>commands automatically. Remember to navigate to the root folder (cd\)
>before you launch Debug.
>
>Note that the second number in the in the L line (L 100 # 0 1) indicates
>the drive letter of the Windows 98 partition (2 = C, 3 = D, 4 = E, and
>so on).
>
>L 100 2 0 1
>
>assumes that Windows 98 is on C:.
>
>After you create the Bootsect.DOS file use the Recovery Console's
>Fixboot command to rewrite the NT boot sector to the partition and
>return the boot to the NT boot manager (ntldr), you should then be able
>to boot both operating systems. The boot.ini file contains the entries
>for both operating systems, typically:
>
>[boot loader]
>timeout=15
>default=multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(2)\WINDOWS
>[operating systems]
>multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(2)\WINDOWS="Windows XP" /fastdetect
>C:\="Microsoft Windows 98"
>
>John

[john john]

On 10/1/2010 2:05 AM, mm wrote:
> On Thu, 30 Sep 2010 21:26:45 -0300, John John<audetweld@nbnot.nb.ca>
> wrote:
>
>> On 9/28/2010 2:16 PM, mm wrote:
>>> On Tue, 28 Sep 2010 08:48:26 -0400, "dadiOH"<dadiOH@invalid.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> mm wrote:
>>>>> On Mon, 27 Sep 2010 21:19:45 -0700, Andy<1@2.3> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> The Windows 98 boot sector (hidden file \bootsect.dos when dual
>>>>>> booting with Widows XP) contains information about the size of the
>>>>>> partition. So when you resized the partition, the Windows 98 boot
>>>>>> sector is no longer valid.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks. I did run "fixboot c:" from the recovery console, but there
>>>>> are still 3 problems in the win98 boot.
>>>>
>>>> You need to fix the boot sector with the files on a Win98 boot floppy, *NOT*
>>>> with XP or its recovery console.
>>>>
>>>> 1. Boot with floppy
>>>>
>>>> 2. sys c: (assuming that the Win98 drive is C:)
>>>
>>> You know, it did sort of bother me that I was using a winXP "solution"
>>> for a 98 partition, but I told myself there were partitions before
>>> there was win98, so it should work. I can well believe that instead,
>>> this will work, but will know for sure later today. I'll let you
>>> know.
>
> I didn't actually try it that day.
>
> I decided to be slow and thorough, and I'm glad I waited because of
> what you've written below. I've read it twice already, and read one
> version of the debug help in Take Command, TCC LE 10, the successor to
> 4DOS. Now I'm going to read some debug tutorials on the web.
>
>> The Sys command will restore the Windows 98 boot sector and you will be
>> able to boot to Windows 98 but you will no longer be able to boot to
>> Windows XP, that is no big deal, the Fixboot command will restore the NT
>> boot sector and allow you to boot Windows XP again. After you boot to
>> the Windows 98 installation you can use the ancient debug command to
>
> I've never used debug, but I think every grown man should. It will be
> good for me.
>
>> recreate the BOOTSECT.DOS file then you can use the Fixboot command to
>> rewrite the NT boot sector and return the boot process to ntldr.
>> To use the DEBUG command to create the bootsect.dos file, from Windows
>> 98 start an MS-DOS Prompt and navigate to the root of the System drive.
>> To start the Debug console type debug and press<Enter> then enter
>> the following commands, (pressing<Enter> after each):
>
> Have I mentioned that when I tried to run the FixMBR comamnd from the
> Recovery Console, it said I had an a non-standard or invalid MBR and I
> might lose my partition tables if I ran FixMBR? So I didn't run it.
> Do you think that's NOT the problem, that's it's for sure what you
> have below?

There is nothing wrong with the MBR and you don't need to run the Fixmbr
command. The problem is that the bootsect.dos is no longer valid
because you re-sized the Windows 98 partition. The Recovery Console's
Fixmbr command *ALWAYS* returns a warning stating that the MBR appears
to be invalid, the article here mentions this about the Windows 2000
Recovery Console but the same also applies to the Windows XP console:

Error Message When You Run fixmbr Command
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/266745


>
>> L 100 2 0 1
>> N C:\BOOTSECT.DOS
>
> IIUC, you are loading the first sector of drive C and you are planning
> to save it as bootsect.dos. That's why the N command doesn't have to
> come before the L command?
>
>> R BX
>> 0
>
> You are setting BX as zero
>
>> R CX
>> 200
>
> And CX as 200.
>
>> W
>
> And you write the boot sector of drive C to the address 0000:0200,
> which you have named bootsect.dos.
>
>> Q
>
> And you Quit
>
>> If you want you can copy and paste the above commands to a Notepad file
>> then save the file as READ.SCR in the root folder, then once in the
>> debug console you can just type READ.SCR and press<Enter> to run the
>> commands automatically. Remember to navigate to the root folder (cd\)
>> before you launch Debug.
>>
>> Note that the second number in the in the L line (L 100 # 0 1) indicates
>> the drive letter of the Windows 98 partition (2 = C, 3 = D, 4 = E, and
>> so on).
>>
>> L 100 2 0 1
>>
>> assumes that Windows 98 is on C:.
>>
>> After you create the Bootsect.DOS file use the Recovery Console's
>> Fixboot command to rewrite the NT boot sector to the partition and
>> return the boot to the NT boot manager (ntldr), you should then be able
>> to boot both operating systems.
>
> On the third reading, I followed all this. I hope you're right.
> Thanks a lot.
>
>> The boot.ini file contains the entries
>> for both operating systems, typically:
>>
>> [boot loader]
>> timeout=15
>> default=multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(2)\WINDOWS
>> [operating systems]
>> multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(2)\WINDOWS="Windows XP" /fastdetect
>> C:\="Microsoft Windows 98"
>
> Yes, that's just what my boot.ini looks like.
>
> Is the reason the the last line can be so short, no multi(0) etc.
> becaue its default is to go to the bootsect.dos? Or do I have things
> backwards.

Yes, Ntldr is coded to load the bootsect file when the ARC path is not
specified, it loads the bootsect file in the path shown, in this case it
loads C:\bootsect.dos

John

[john john]

On 10/1/2010 7:11 PM, mm wrote:
> On Thu, 30 Sep 2010 21:26:45 -0300, John John<audetweld@nbnot.nb.ca>
> wrote:
>
>> On 9/28/2010 2:16 PM, mm wrote:
>>> On Tue, 28 Sep 2010 08:48:26 -0400, "dadiOH"<dadiOH@invalid.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> mm wrote:
>>>>> On Mon, 27 Sep 2010 21:19:45 -0700, Andy<1@2.3> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> The Windows 98 boot sector (hidden file \bootsect.dos when dual
>>>>>> booting with Widows XP) contains information about the size of the
>>>>>> partition. So when you resized the partition, the Windows 98 boot
>>>>>> sector is no longer valid.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks. I did run "fixboot c:" from the recovery console, but there
>>>>> are still 3 problems in the win98 boot.
>>>>
>>>> You need to fix the boot sector with the files on a Win98 boot floppy, *NOT*
>>>> with XP or its recovery console.
>>>>
>>>> 1. Boot with floppy
>>>>
>>>> 2. sys c: (assuming that the Win98 drive is C:)
>
> Alas, now I have another question. This has bothered me for many
> years, but now it becomes very important.
>
> http://www.easydos.com/sys.html
> http://www.computerhope.com/syshlp.htm
> Sys copies:
> command.com
> io.sys
> msdos.sys
> drvspace.bin (which I never have)
>
> What happens if I copy in another version?

You are asking for trouble if you use a different version of these
files, especially so for the command.com file. The sys c: command will
copy these files from the diskette to the hard disk so use a Windows 98
startup diskette and then you will be certain that there is no
possibility of incompatibilities or file mismatch. You can get a
Windows 98 Startup diskette at http://bootdisk.com/


> For example, the command.com there now is 700K, but in most of my boot
> disks I see that it is about 300K or as little as 94K! Even the one
> where it is the closest, around 700K, the length is 10 bytes
> different, longer.
>
> And the other two files might be different. For example, in the
> floppy that has the 700K command.com (which I dl'd from bootdisk.com
> and which I think shows with ver that it is the ME version of DOS,
> which is a later version than win98 had!), msdos.sys is only 6 bytes
> long**, eeeeven though comments inside longer versions of msdos.sys
> say it has to be has to be at least 1024 bytes long! "for
> compatibility with other programs."*** And the one there now is 1756
> bytes! And even though there are important entries in a full length
> msdos.sys, like Paths and Options, default boot option, boot menu
> delay, nogui or not. That aren't in a 6 byte version, which only has
> ";sys ", which is the first line of the longer versions.
>
> ***Maybe those other programs don't exist anymore, especially in the
> WinMe world but I still want to retain the Paths and Options.
>
> It seems to me what I have to do is take the emergency boot floppy and
> copy over to it the current values for those 3 files to the floppy, so
> that the sys command doens't change them.
>
> Or is that like copying back bootsect.dos? And I'll undo whatever
> good I would have done.
>
> And this finally reminds me, What does any of this have to do with the
> boot sector? I'm reading again the descriptions of the sys command
> and none of the sources say anything except about the 4 files listed.

It has to do that to load an operating system the boot sector must be
loaded so that the boot process may then be passed on to the OS loader,
it goes like this:

The boot device is set in the BIOS, the BIOS finds the boot device, in
this case a hard disk.

1- The BIOS loads the MBR (sector 0) on the hard disk and then passes
the boot process to the MBR.

2- The MBR contains a small bit of code which loads the partition table
and identifies the Active partition, the MBR loads the boot sector of
the active partition and then passes the boot process to the boot sector.

3- A small bit of code in the boot sector identifies and loads the OS
loader, (io.sys for DOS/Windows 9x or ntldr for earlier NT operating
systems), the boot sector then passes the boot process to the OS loader.
The boot sector cannot have more than one OS loader, if you need to
boot different operating systems you need to use a boot manager that can
load the required OS loader, ntldr can act as a boot manager for
previous DOS/Windows 9x operating systems. When you select to boot
Windows 98 ntldr loads a copy of the W9x boot sector (bootsect.dos) and
then io.sys can load Windows 98.

Being that the bootsect.dos is no longer valid after you resized the
Windows 98 partition you can no longer boot the Windows 98 installation
using ntldr and bootsect.dos so you must now rebuild the file. You can
do this by by using the SYS C: command with your Windows 98 startup
diskette to return the boot sector directly to io.sys, (which doesn't
need or use the bootsect.dos file to load W9x), and then use the debug
command to recreate the file.

You can also recreate the bootsect.dos file directly from the Windows XP
installation with the use of third party utilities and without having to
use the a W98 floppy and the sys command to rewrite the boot sector.
Bootpart.exe can do this:
http://www.winimage.com/bootpart.htm


> Thanks again for all your help.

You're welcome.

John

[dadioh]

John John wrote:
> On 10/1/2010 7:11 PM, mm wrote:
>> On Thu, 30 Sep 2010 21:26:45 -0300, John John<audetweld@nbnot.nb.ca>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On 9/28/2010 2:16 PM, mm wrote:
>>>> On Tue, 28 Sep 2010 08:48:26 -0400, "dadiOH"<dadiOH@invalid.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> mm wrote:
>>>>>> On Mon, 27 Sep 2010 21:19:45 -0700, Andy<1@2.3> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The Windows 98 boot sector (hidden file \bootsect.dos when dual
>>>>>>> booting with Widows XP) contains information about the size of
>>>>>>> the partition. So when you resized the partition, the Windows
>>>>>>> 98 boot sector is no longer valid.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks. I did run "fixboot c:" from the recovery console, but
>>>>>> there are still 3 problems in the win98 boot.
>>>>>
>>>>> You need to fix the boot sector with the files on a Win98 boot
>>>>> floppy, *NOT* with XP or its recovery console.
>>>>>
>>>>> 1. Boot with floppy
>>>>>
>>>>> 2. sys c: (assuming that the Win98 drive is C:)
>>
>> Alas, now I have another question. This has bothered me for many
>> years, but now it becomes very important.
>>
>> http://www.easydos.com/sys.html
>> http://www.computerhope.com/syshlp.htm
>> Sys copies:
>> command.com
>> io.sys
>> msdos.sys
>> drvspace.bin (which I never have)
>>
>> What happens if I copy in another version?
>
> You are asking for trouble if you use a different version of these
> files, especially so for the command.com file. The sys c: command
> will copy these files from the diskette to the hard disk so use a
> Windows 98 startup diskette and then you will be certain that there
> is no possibility of incompatibilities or file mismatch. You can get
> a Windows 98 Startup diskette at http://bootdisk.com/
>
>
>> For example, the command.com there now is 700K, but in most of my
>> boot disks I see that it is about 300K or as little as 94K! Even
>> the one where it is the closest, around 700K, the length is 10 bytes
>> different, longer.
>>
>> And the other two files might be different. For example, in the
>> floppy that has the 700K command.com (which I dl'd from bootdisk.com
>> and which I think shows with ver that it is the ME version of DOS,
>> which is a later version than win98 had!), msdos.sys is only 6 bytes
>> long**, eeeeven though comments inside longer versions of msdos.sys
>> say it has to be has to be at least 1024 bytes long! "for
>> compatibility with other programs."*** And the one there now is 1756
>> bytes! And even though there are important entries in a full length
>> msdos.sys, like Paths and Options, default boot option, boot menu
>> delay, nogui or not. That aren't in a 6 byte version, which only has
>> ";sys ", which is the first line of the longer versions.
>>
>> ***Maybe those other programs don't exist anymore, especially in the
>> WinMe world but I still want to retain the Paths and Options.
>>
>> It seems to me what I have to do is take the emergency boot floppy
>> and copy over to it the current values for those 3 files to the
>> floppy, so that the sys command doens't change them.
>>
>> Or is that like copying back bootsect.dos? And I'll undo whatever
>> good I would have done.
>>
>> And this finally reminds me, What does any of this have to do with
>> the boot sector? I'm reading again the descriptions of the sys
>> command and none of the sources say anything except about the 4
>> files listed.
>
> It has to do that to load an operating system the boot sector must be
> loaded so that the boot process may then be passed on to the OS
> loader, it goes like this:
>
> The boot device is set in the BIOS, the BIOS finds the boot device, in
> this case a hard disk.
>
> 1- The BIOS loads the MBR (sector 0) on the hard disk and then passes
> the boot process to the MBR.
>
> 2- The MBR contains a small bit of code which loads the partition
> table and identifies the Active partition, the MBR loads the boot
> sector of the active partition and then passes the boot process to
> the boot sector.
> 3- A small bit of code in the boot sector identifies and loads the OS
> loader, (io.sys for DOS/Windows 9x or ntldr for earlier NT operating
> systems), the boot sector then passes the boot process to the OS
> loader. The boot sector cannot have more than one OS loader, if you
> need to boot different operating systems you need to use a boot manager
> that
> can load the required OS loader, ntldr can act as a boot manager for
> previous DOS/Windows 9x operating systems. When you select to boot
> Windows 98 ntldr loads a copy of the W9x boot sector (bootsect.dos)
> and then io.sys can load Windows 98.
>
> Being that the bootsect.dos is no longer valid after you resized the
> Windows 98 partition you can no longer boot the Windows 98
> installation using ntldr and bootsect.dos so you must now rebuild the
> file. You can do this by by using the SYS C: command with your
> Windows 98 startup diskette to return the boot sector directly to
> io.sys, (which doesn't need or use the bootsect.dos file to load
> W9x), and then use the debug command to recreate the file.

Could he not also do it (correct bootsect.dos) by doing a repair install of
XP after sys c: rather than via debug?

--

dadiOH
____________________________

dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
....a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico

[mm]

On Sat, 02 Oct 2010 07:17:52 -0300, John John <audetweld@nbnot.nb.ca>
wrote:

>
>> Have I mentioned that when I tried to run the FixMBR comamnd from the
>> Recovery Console, it said I had an a non-standard or invalid MBR and I
>> might lose my partition tables if I ran FixMBR? So I didn't run it.
>> Do you think that's NOT the problem, that's it's for sure what you
>> have below?
>
>There is nothing wrong with the MBR and you don't need to run the Fixmbr
>command. The problem is that the bootsect.dos is no longer valid
>because you re-sized the Windows 98 partition. The Recovery Console's
>Fixmbr command *ALWAYS* returns a warning stating that the MBR appears
>to be invalid, the article here mentions this about the Windows 2000
>Recovery Console but the same also applies to the Windows XP console:
>
>Error Message When You Run fixmbr Command
>http://support.microsoft.com/kb/266745

I googled the messsage but didn't read every hit. Thanks.

.........
>>
>>> The boot.ini file contains the entries
>>> for both operating systems, typically:
>>>
>>> [boot loader]
>>> timeout=15
>>> default=multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(2)\WINDOWS
>>> [operating systems]
>>> multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(2)\WINDOWS="Windows XP" /fastdetect
>>> C:\="Microsoft Windows 98"
>>
>> Yes, that's just what my boot.ini looks like.
>>
>> Is the reason the the last line can be so short, no multi(0) etc.
>> becaue its default is to go to the bootsect.dos? Or do I have things
>> backwards.
>
>Yes, Ntldr is coded to load the bootsect file when the ARC path is not
>specified, it loads the bootsect file in the path shown, in this case it
>loads C:\bootsect.dos

Great. Thanks again.

>John

[john john]

On 10/2/2010 10:09 AM, dadiOH wrote:
> John John wrote:
>> On 10/1/2010 7:11 PM, mm wrote:
>>> On Thu, 30 Sep 2010 21:26:45 -0300, John John<audetweld@nbnot.nb.ca>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 9/28/2010 2:16 PM, mm wrote:
>>>>> On Tue, 28 Sep 2010 08:48:26 -0400, "dadiOH"<dadiOH@invalid.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> mm wrote:
>>>>>>> On Mon, 27 Sep 2010 21:19:45 -0700, Andy<1@2.3> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The Windows 98 boot sector (hidden file \bootsect.dos when dual
>>>>>>>> booting with Widows XP) contains information about the size of
>>>>>>>> the partition. So when you resized the partition, the Windows
>>>>>>>> 98 boot sector is no longer valid.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thanks. I did run "fixboot c:" from the recovery console, but
>>>>>>> there are still 3 problems in the win98 boot.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You need to fix the boot sector with the files on a Win98 boot
>>>>>> floppy, *NOT* with XP or its recovery console.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 1. Boot with floppy
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 2. sys c: (assuming that the Win98 drive is C:)
>>>
>>> Alas, now I have another question. This has bothered me for many
>>> years, but now it becomes very important.
>>>
>>> http://www.easydos.com/sys.html
>>> http://www.computerhope.com/syshlp.htm
>>> Sys copies:
>>> command.com
>>> io.sys
>>> msdos.sys
>>> drvspace.bin (which I never have)
>>>
>>> What happens if I copy in another version?
>>
>> You are asking for trouble if you use a different version of these
>> files, especially so for the command.com file. The sys c: command
>> will copy these files from the diskette to the hard disk so use a
>> Windows 98 startup diskette and then you will be certain that there
>> is no possibility of incompatibilities or file mismatch. You can get
>> a Windows 98 Startup diskette at http://bootdisk.com/
>>
>>
>>> For example, the command.com there now is 700K, but in most of my
>>> boot disks I see that it is about 300K or as little as 94K! Even
>>> the one where it is the closest, around 700K, the length is 10 bytes
>>> different, longer.
>>>
>>> And the other two files might be different. For example, in the
>>> floppy that has the 700K command.com (which I dl'd from bootdisk.com
>>> and which I think shows with ver that it is the ME version of DOS,
>>> which is a later version than win98 had!), msdos.sys is only 6 bytes
>>> long**, eeeeven though comments inside longer versions of msdos.sys
>>> say it has to be has to be at least 1024 bytes long! "for
>>> compatibility with other programs."*** And the one there now is 1756
>>> bytes! And even though there are important entries in a full length
>>> msdos.sys, like Paths and Options, default boot option, boot menu
>>> delay, nogui or not. That aren't in a 6 byte version, which only has
>>> ";sys ", which is the first line of the longer versions.
>>>
>>> ***Maybe those other programs don't exist anymore, especially in the
>>> WinMe world but I still want to retain the Paths and Options.
>>>
>>> It seems to me what I have to do is take the emergency boot floppy
>>> and copy over to it the current values for those 3 files to the
>>> floppy, so that the sys command doens't change them.
>>>
>>> Or is that like copying back bootsect.dos? And I'll undo whatever
>>> good I would have done.
>>>
>>> And this finally reminds me, What does any of this have to do with
>>> the boot sector? I'm reading again the descriptions of the sys
>>> command and none of the sources say anything except about the 4
>>> files listed.
>>
>> It has to do that to load an operating system the boot sector must be
>> loaded so that the boot process may then be passed on to the OS
>> loader, it goes like this:
>>
>> The boot device is set in the BIOS, the BIOS finds the boot device, in
>> this case a hard disk.
>>
>> 1- The BIOS loads the MBR (sector 0) on the hard disk and then passes
>> the boot process to the MBR.
>>
>> 2- The MBR contains a small bit of code which loads the partition
>> table and identifies the Active partition, the MBR loads the boot
>> sector of the active partition and then passes the boot process to
>> the boot sector.
>> 3- A small bit of code in the boot sector identifies and loads the OS
>> loader, (io.sys for DOS/Windows 9x or ntldr for earlier NT operating
>> systems), the boot sector then passes the boot process to the OS
>> loader. The boot sector cannot have more than one OS loader, if you
>> need to boot different operating systems you need to use a boot manager
>> that
>> can load the required OS loader, ntldr can act as a boot manager for
>> previous DOS/Windows 9x operating systems. When you select to boot
>> Windows 98 ntldr loads a copy of the W9x boot sector (bootsect.dos)
>> and then io.sys can load Windows 98.
>>
>> Being that the bootsect.dos is no longer valid after you resized the
>> Windows 98 partition you can no longer boot the Windows 98
>> installation using ntldr and bootsect.dos so you must now rebuild the
>> file. You can do this by by using the SYS C: command with your
>> Windows 98 startup diskette to return the boot sector directly to
>> io.sys, (which doesn't need or use the bootsect.dos file to load
>> W9x), and then use the debug command to recreate the file.
>
> Could he not also do it (correct bootsect.dos) by doing a repair install of
> XP after sys c: rather than via debug?

Yes, but that would be an awful lot more work and hassles than using the
debug command! It takes about 3 minutes to fix this with the SYS, Debug
and Fixboot commands or with the Bootpart utility.

John

[john john]

On 10/2/2010 7:20 PM, mm wrote:
> On Sat, 02 Oct 2010 07:17:52 -0300, John John<audetweld@nbnot.nb.ca>
> wrote:
>
>>
>>> Have I mentioned that when I tried to run the FixMBR comamnd from the
>>> Recovery Console, it said I had an a non-standard or invalid MBR and I
>>> might lose my partition tables if I ran FixMBR? So I didn't run it.
>>> Do you think that's NOT the problem, that's it's for sure what you
>>> have below?
>>
>> There is nothing wrong with the MBR and you don't need to run the Fixmbr
>> command. The problem is that the bootsect.dos is no longer valid
>> because you re-sized the Windows 98 partition. The Recovery Console's
>> Fixmbr command *ALWAYS* returns a warning stating that the MBR appears
>> to be invalid, the article here mentions this about the Windows 2000
>> Recovery Console but the same also applies to the Windows XP console:
>>
>> Error Message When You Run fixmbr Command
>> http://support.microsoft.com/kb/266745
>
> I googled the messsage but didn't read every hit. Thanks.
>
> ........
>>>
>>>> The boot.ini file contains the entries
>>>> for both operating systems, typically:
>>>>
>>>> [boot loader]
>>>> timeout=15
>>>> default=multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(2)\WINDOWS
>>>> [operating systems]
>>>> multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(2)\WINDOWS="Windows XP" /fastdetect
>>>> C:\="Microsoft Windows 98"
>>>
>>> Yes, that's just what my boot.ini looks like.
>>>
>>> Is the reason the the last line can be so short, no multi(0) etc.
>>> becaue its default is to go to the bootsect.dos? Or do I have things
>>> backwards.
>>
>> Yes, Ntldr is coded to load the bootsect file when the ARC path is not
>> specified, it loads the bootsect file in the path shown, in this case it
>> loads C:\bootsect.dos
>
> Great. Thanks again.

You're welcome.

John